Values Under Pressure

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Same thing. Are they seeing you show up? Are they seeing you still study film? Are they seeing you still treat your players the same? Or are you now compromising your values? Are you willing to cheat? Are you willing to do things that are unethical in order to get the results that you want? Or are you just showing up and putting in the work every single day and being consistent and seeing that that commitment to your faith and what you believe when things are hard?

Welcome And Sports Banter

SPEAKER_00 0:29

You are listening to the gospel in the game sports podcast. Your host, Danromarski.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I'm gonna cross you into the fire really fast. I'm gonna put you in a coaching position in a sport outside of basketball. What sport are you coaching that you've never coached before?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I've never coached before. I've never coached football.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Ah, there we go. Interesting. A little more physical contact than basketball.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

A little bit. You know, basketball is supposed to be physical. Um, I think we've lost that a little bit. You know, I'm I grew up in the 90s, you know, a little more physical back then.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

But uh the old Charles Barkley elbows up.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Oh man, there you know, there's so many good highlights on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, a guy a guy can watch physical basketball. Now it's like a little more floppy basketball. But you know what though? Yeah, there's some good moments. I'm gonna I'm gonna give the sport a little bit of credit here. Um, it's a lot more difficult to play than people present it as.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Oh my goodness. And it's uh they're starting to allow some of the physicality to come back a little bit, but yeah, not like it was like you had the enforcers back in the day, it's almost like having Marty McSorley protecting Gretzky uh out there. They had you had those guys on your roster. Like there's a reason Michael Jordan never got touched. Yeah, he had guys out there, right? And you knew if they got subbed on, you probably crossed the line somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, even though uh probably the one of his uh guys that helped him uh keep things safe was a little bit different, but he was very good at getting balls off the board, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

And he has some of the most fantastic highlight reels to go watch. My goodness, he Dennis Robin was he was fun, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Quite the quite the story with that one. One of those guys that you're like, if that guy ever knew the Lord, my my goodness, that would be still time. There's still time. That's right, he's still breathing.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah, there's still time. My brother, fun just side story, was in California watching the Blue Jays play in Anaheim, and they went out to eat at a chilies after the game, and in came Dennis Rodman with a stack of one dollar bills and just walked into the Chili's of all places and just started like spreading one dollar everywhere. I get a text like Dennis Rodman just walked in and is throwing dollar what yeah at a chili's, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

And in the Canadian version of that is throwing loonies and it's a a lot more damage done.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Way more, yeah. That's dangerous. Yeah, very much.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Oh, well, welcome, welcome to the gospel of the

Life And Culture At Briercrest

SPEAKER_02 3:00

game. I'm your host, Dan Dramarski. And with me today is Shane Stowden. Shane, um, lots of things to talk about. Um, we're going to begin a little bit with the sport that you coach. You coach men's basketball at Briercrest. Now, Briarcrest, tell me a little bit about the school where you're going because it's becoming a little more popular with some of the wins that have been happening there.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah, Briarcrest College. You know, we're a member of the ACAC, uh, you know, Alberta Athletics College Association in uh in Alberta. And we're the only Saskatchewan school there. We've been located in Cairnport. Oh, for I don't know, we just celebrated our 90th anniversary, but we started in the town of Briarcrest. And so, yeah, we have we have we have full, we have five ACAC teams. We got hockey, we got men's and women's basketball, men's and women's volleyball. Uh the men's volleyball team has been strong for a very, very long time. Uh, you know, a couple of conference championships, our women's volleyball program has been strong for a little while. And uh in the last few years, our whip, our basketball programs have cut up and have have done really, really well. And they've done, you know, they used to be really, really strong before the AC, ACAC time. Um, but uh yeah, and the hockey team's been a lot, has had some of their best seasons in the last the last four years. And so we're this small little Christian college of about 400 to 450 students in Carnport, Saskatchewan. You know, a lot of people say in the middle of nowhere, but for some reason, like the Lord just keeps blessing this place and good things are happening. So it's um it's been yeah, it's been it's a cool place to work, and the god God keeps moving here.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

And I would encourage you if you have a moment, uh look on the Google maps where Carnport, Saskatchewan is. Um, there's a reason why people some people describe it and say it's kind of in the middle of nowhere, but there's lots of things in multiple different directions. But in Kernport, Saskatchewan, when school's not on, what's everyone doing?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

That's probably the beauty of this place is that you have to engage with other human beings. It's it's really difficult to um get away and not be with people. The relationships are what makes this place. Um, you know, there's there's game nights, the guys are always in the gym together, dorm life is vibrant. Um, you know, so it's just like things that we kind of used to take for granted, you know, hanging out, playing ping pong, playing pool, playing board games, you know, those sorts of things happen regularly here. You know, there's stuff always going on campus and stuff. Um, you know, our weekend sports are are huge. Like that's the draw for the for the for the town to come out. And we I think we have the best fans in the in the in the conference. We pack out our our old barn. Um, you know, we have a newer rink, but yeah, we pack it out and it's a lot of fun. Here's great. And uh it's a nice warm place to be in the middle of winter when you're in southern Saskatchewan. But um, yeah, that's the people that make this place um special. And I always tell my recruits if you want to come to a place where you can focus on basketball, academics, growing in your faith, becoming uh, you know, just and becoming a man with little to no distractions, uh, this is the place to be. And you can always find trouble to get into. You just got to work a little harder here to do it. And uh yeah, it's just a very wholesome, laid-back, you know, uh country town in Saskatchewan. And uh, we love it. I've been here since 2005, and we've raised our family here, and it's a fantastic place to be and coach.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Now,

From Athlete To Unexpected Coach

SPEAKER_02 6:36

being 2026, you came there in in 2005. Growing up, you didn't put a poster on your wall and say, This is where I'm going to coach basketball one day. How did you get involved with coaching in Briarcrest?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

You know, it's it's it's it's my family was always connected to Briarcrest. So my dad went to the high school here. He went to Carnport High School, and so we always had a connection to Briarcrest. I grew up in Moosjaw. And when I was in grade 11, I remember very distinctly my dad's my dad asked me the question. He's like, Okay, what are you what are you gonna do with your life? Like, what's the plan? And just out of the blue. And I paused, and my response was, and I hadn't really thought about it a ton. I said, I think I'm gonna be either a teacher or a pastor. Those are the two things. He kind of looked at me and he said, Okay, good. And then from there, you know, I was a multi-sport athlete in high school. I'd play volleyball in the fall, basketball in the in the winter, and baseball in the spring and summer. And I, you know, I did very well in those sports. And my my biggest dream was I wanted to get paid to play a sport. That was my my goal. I was obsessed with sports um, you know, from a very young age. And when I was in my grade 12 year, I had a pretty good year, and I had offers for to I had to make a decision between basketball and baseball. Uh, I did well in both. I ended up making, I played for the Canadian national junior team that year in 1997 and got a scholarship to play for Division I school in Louisiana called Northwestern State uh University. And I went down there and I knew I was one, if I if baseball didn't work out, I knew I was gonna teach and coach. Now, I never thought I was ever gonna coach college. That was not on the that was not on the plans. Uh, you know, I went to school in the states for five and a half years. And the the way down there, if you get into college coaching, you finish your coaching, you put you finish your playing career, and then you become a graduate assistant for a year or two, you do the grunt work, get your master's degree, they usually pay for it, and then you you start the the bottom rung and you work your way up. And usually you're a college head coach by the time you're in your mid-30s, somewhere in the states, because there's so many schools that didn't really appeal to me. Uh, I kind of thought, you know, I'm gonna just go do the high school route. And so um, my wife and I we were engaged at the time. She was going to the University of Saskatchewan. I was going to a school in Missouri, and I graduated and we decided to set down routes in Mooshaw. And I got an email from an old teacher in one of the local schools in Mooshaw and said, Hey, we heard you're moving back. We need to we need some help with our senior boys basketball team. Would you help? And it was the only offer I had at the time, and I said yes. And yeah, we're off within two weeks coming coming home. I went from being the assistant coach to the head coach because the head coach stopped showing up. And so I was a head boys basketball coach at 23. Had no clue what I was doing, and you know, just got thrown right into the deep end. And within I was 23 then. By the time I was 28, I was I was the women's the college women's uh head coach at Briarcrest because I in 2005 moved to Carnport. I got the head, I got the a teaching job at the at the high school and was the athletic director and did okay coaching the boys' basketball team, and then the college asked if I'd uh try and resuscitate the the women's program uh that had fallen on hard times. And so I'm 28 years old, and uh, I'd never thought about coaching college. But I said yes, and that's where we're at today, still still doing it years later.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

I I the theme of our pre-recorded conversation uh might have been what you just said, um, saying yes. Um there you go. When when all of a sudden something comes up that you don't necessarily expect or anything happen, you got to go through the process, don't you? And sometimes that's the the being in the thick of it, going through the difficult times. And we understand as believers, perseverance develops character and uh adversity happens for a reason. Um now you're developing a program, not just coaching a team. Um when you've been doing it for more than I'd say the kind of the tenure of three years, um you start to really kind of focusing on on development and having a plan, um, because you have to adapt because people are start learning a little bit about your coaching style and you have different students. And how how was the coaching experience at the collegiate level now compared to the high school and doing it? How

Recruiting And The Culture Separator

SPEAKER_02 11:10

was your perspective on development?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

I had somebody very early on when I was coaching when I coached college the first time from 07 to 11. Um I had somebody talk to me like, okay, Shane, the coaching college is all different. Is that 80% of it is recruiting? You like you need 80% of it is recruiting and fundraising. The other 20% is coaching. If you're coaching college, you probably can coach. You know the game, you have the system, you know how to do it. But like if you don't have the players to do it, it's not gonna matter. It doesn't matter, you can be the best coach in the conference, and you can help that group improve. But if you don't have the right DNA on your team, it's gonna be tough to beat the other team, that sort of thing. And so I learned that the hard way the first couple years, uh, you know, coaching the women's program here. And then we started getting some of those recruits, and then you know, fast forward to coaching the men's years later, we started collecting talent. But then what's the separate? Once you have the same talent, what's the separator? What's the culture? What's the trust? What's the character? Like all those things kind of like are you a better team? Right? Because when you get to a final four, all the final four teams, the final eight teams are all are all good. When you get to the conference tournament, anybody can beat anybody on any given night. But what separates the the the good teams from the great, right? Uh, and we found that that was culture and believing in each other. And so we we started really focusing on those sorts of things, like once we got there. And so for us, a big switch happened, and this happened uh about a season before our ACAC championship in 24-25. Uh, I worked with a mentor, his name is JP Nurb, and he worked for for TOC coach. And in 2018, I hired him to work with me as like as a mentor coach. I was making a transition from being a vice principal to uh to a college coach, and I just knew I needed some guidance along the way. And you know, I'd be listening to podcasts, reading books for forever. My master's degree said, you know, invest in yourself, invest in yourself, and invest in a coach, all those sorts of things. So, okay, I'm gonna invest in myself. And he pushed me. We I worked with JP for five years, and we're still good friends to this day. He he always pushed me to like, well, what's the purpose of your program? Like, why are you doing this? What are your values? What's the vision? And I always thought it was cheesy, right? Like, and I had a degree in leadership, and so I I understood the importance of it, but it also it just didn't feel right. And it wasn't until four years ago he connected me with a coach, uh, his name is Greg Tonnegle. He'd actually be great on your on your on your podcast. He's the head coach at Indiana Wesleyan University uh down in Indiana, and they're one of the top NIA basketball programs in the country every year. They get division one guys giving up NIL money to come play NIA just because it's just a different, it's just a different thing. And so um he set me up with a Zoom call with Greg, and we just talked for about two hours, and I just sat there taking notes for just he was mostly just listening to him talk about how they built the program and what's the purpose. And so they did this thing called the father-son retreat. And for some reason, and so at in before at the end of their training camp every year in the summer, they do a father-son retreat where they invite every single father of every of the players on the team to attend a week-long retreat. Um, not a week long, but probably about three or four days, and sometimes they'll do a missions trip. Sometimes they'll just go away to a lake and have a cabin and they just do team building stuff for three or four days. But they invite the fathers in, and so but the big thing is they they had an emphasis on developing the whole person, spiritually, emotionally, physically, mentally, all those sorts of things. And just really like we want to raise strong men who are great husbands, and it's just a it's like that's it. Like, um husbands and fathers. Those just two words just came into mind. And so what was born for Briar Crest Men's basketball was our program exists in order to develop men of character integrity who are gonna be equipped to be engaged fathers and committed husbands in light of eternity. That that was our mission statement for the first time in four years. And I remember calling JP as like, I think I finally got it. Because nothing would f nothing nothing clicked until that moment. You know, you could have all these vision statements, but like, no, there has to be a bigger purpose than winning games. Um, like what's really winning? And I was like, that's winning. If our program develops that, we're winning regardless of the scoreboard. Funny thing is, as soon as we did that, we started winning. And I'm not saying that's like a magic pill, but we went from two and nineteen to fourteen and seven to nineteen and one conference championships, and then fourteen and seven last year. And so it's just been this weird it's been this weird fun stretch for the last three years where we took the emphasis off of how many games are we winning, and we're still focused on developing young men, but the big thing is we want to try and win games, so then flipping it. We care more about who our players are becoming and we want to win, we're still crazy competitive, but we started doing that when that wasn't the main focus. And so, yeah, that's probably that for us, that was

Mission Statement And Father-Son Retreat

SPEAKER_01 16:49

the piece of development of who who are who are who are our our our players becoming? Like what kind of man are you, who do you want to be and who are you becoming through being part of this program? And uh that was a big shift for us developmentally and being really intentional in how we do that. So we started doing a father's son retreat four years ago. That's so good, and and it's been fantastic. So yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

It reminds me of um interviewed a former CFL football player, Ed Joseph. Uh Ed Joseph, wide receiver for the Eskimos. Um, his boys played hockey. And um, one of the things that he talks about was coaching his son's team. He's like, I'm not a hockey player, and he's like, We weren't doing very good, and all of a sudden we decide we invited the parents into our post-game conversation. Everyone gets changed, and we're gonna have a post-game conversation, and all the moms and dads are gonna be there. And so he said, as soon as I invited in the moms and dads, all of a sudden we started winning. And he said, just this open line of communication of seeing, having the parents see and the boys see, or the kids see, the priority was people. That's where it was, developing them as people and who they were as people. And one of the things that really stood out to me, he talked about how one of the he talked about not doing the the talk one of the times. And one of the moms was like, no, no, no, I need this. This is how I get through my work week. As I as I have the weekend conversation at your hockey talk, it gets me through my week. And he was like, Whoa, we're not just impacting the person who's playing on the ice, I'm trying helping transform families, and so when I hear stuff like that, this father or son idea, it's like so much of the focus would be on the kid. Oh, see, we have your father here, we have this. It's like, no, you're teaching dads too.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah, and just think of like our current sporting culture and how many parents are finding their identity in in their kids' use, in their kids' participation in the sports and how they do. Right. So if their kid is good at their sport, they live vicariously through their kid, but now you're inviting them into that, you're inviting them into the team talk, you're inviting him into the the the deeper things that you're learning through sport rather than you know your kid's performance and how many minutes did he play, or how many shifts did he get, or how many goals did he score, or playing whatever it is, which usually kind of become the norm instead of taking pivoting a little bit and using now. You can use the drive home for a different purpose. You can ask better questions, you can understand where the coaches and other players and parents are coming from. Just gives a whole different perspective to to actual actual development. And we we all know the like Hockey Canada across is the perfect example of we need more of that um because you're you're taking these kids out of their homes at 14, 15 years old. That's hard. Like there's great billets out there, it's like these kids are getting thrown into an ecosystem that is is meant to chew them up um and value some things that probably aren't really good in our in our culture, and we've seen some some negative effects of that. And so, yeah, the more we can invite parents in and see them as allies rather than um you know fighting against them, the the better, which is really hard and it's scary. Most coaches would be terrified to bring parents into the locker room after a game.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah, oh for sure they would. One of the goals of the Gospel and the Game Sports podcast is in order to provide unity not only with parents and the player, but also with the church. When you have kids uh go away to play college or even at a young age, you use the hockey example, all of a sudden you're removing them from a common environment. And one of the common environments is not only their own room and their own bed, but it's their own extended family that they maybe they grew up with in the church. Um talk a little bit about that, about what the coach can provide and the atmosphere that's important uh around developing people as a coach and kind of being a mentor to these young people.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Well, I think first of all, like you can say you can have all the great verbal you can talk the talk, but you've got to walk the walk. And so for for me, when I'm recruiting and my guys come in, it's they need to see that what I value and then that I actually follow through on that. Because I'm finding a lot of players these days are coming from other like they're either transferring here or they're coming from high school programs where their level of trust is so low because they feel like they've been lied to or used for for the wrong reasons um and haven't had positive experiences at their last on their last teams. And so for me, it's when I tell them like, hey, we're on the phone or I'm on a recruiting trip, okay. I we're gonna invest in you as a man, and I care more about who you're becoming, and I will gauge my success as a coach when I visit you in 20 years and I see you with your kids, with your wife. So, you know, I was like, you better invite me into your house for supper and I'm gonna watch how you're interacting with your family. Are you engaged at your local church or your community? Like, how are you living out the values that we talked about for you know the one to five years that you were here? And if you're doing those things, and if I can have that type, like then I'll know I was as successful as a coach. And so that sounds great to to parents and

Parents As Allies In Development

SPEAKER_01 23:00

players, you know, on the recruiting trail. It's a different thing once they get here. Because now it's it's I'm not only in like I'm I'm not only I guess in charge, but I'm their main point of reference as far as like them growing in that way, but I'm also the guy that now determines their playing time in some ways, and I have to make some tough calls. And so I found being brutally honest, you know, one of my old uh professors in in seminary called it caring candor. It's like you have to be candid, but you have to show a level of care. Like, yeah, I'm telling you the truth, you know, like I'm not gonna shame you, I'm not gonna yell at you, but like I this is who you're becoming, and my door is always open, and we're gonna talk about this and be honest, and this is where I think you're at, it's where I think you need to be better, this is where I think you're doing awesome. Uh, and being willing to have those hard conversations where earlier in my career, I would kind of skirt the, you know, I don't want to hurt your feelings or whatever, and that's that's not loving somebody, right? And so I've had more players who maybe I've told the truth to and they don't stay, but they come back and work camp or they come back to games and because they respect the fact that we were able to have honest conversations.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, and I think sometimes it's uh so about the simplest of stuff. I I I questioned a couple years ago why we don't talk about things. Uh, one of the things as a hockey chaplain that comes up often with athletes is just influences. And I think the the culture has so many things that are acceptable in our day and age or just common. Um, one one young man that I worked with didn't play a game sober for like almost three years before he came to our team. And you're like, wait a second, aren't you like 19? Yeah, and and it's just absolutely wild to all of a sudden see these influences, but it's not just influences. I always say they learn from the best, they learned something from someone at some point, and you're talking about investing these good things and these good habits into people and how important it is to do it yourself. Outside of the coach, who else do you point to as a coach for some of these young men to be influences on them in life?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

You know, it's everything from so at our retreat, we invite not only the dads, because you're not gonna be able to get all the dads here. Like we got guys from we've had guys from Ivory Coast and San Diego and Tennessee and from all like Nova Scotia. We've had guys from there, it's hard for their dads to get here, right? Um, you know, even though last year we had 14 of our 19 dads come, which was blew my mind, which was which was awesome. But we we invite what we call mentor dads every year. So we invite um men on campus who want to invest in the next generation. So some of our profs, uh our like Jamie Raymer, who's our associate athletic director, uh mutual friend, he comes out. Um, my dad, uh, he's our massage therapist, and he comes, he this is his best. He's like, he gets to work on these guys like twice a week for 10 minutes just to get them ready. And the stuff that they talk about on the table of just sharing life, like he loves it, it's more life-giving for him because he's like, Shane, I would never got to meet know these guys, right? Like, so we invite so-called mentor dads. We have dads whose sons are no longer part of the program that ask to come to the retreat still just because they want to be father figures. Because you know, some of some of the guys we have our team, their dad's not involved. Yeah, he's not there, you know, for whatever reason, right? Um, and so there's that. So then they have it's fun for me after we have the retreat, and then we're playing games, and you're seeing my players not just going to talk with their parents, but they're going to connect with the other dads that they created a handshake with at the retreat. Nice, or they were on their team for this competition. Like it was just all these, and so you're just seeing these different, and then they have different connection points with some of the you know people on campus. So, so that's a big thing. And so, you know, we've brought in other people as guest speakers, chapel times, all that kind of stuff. Um, we have a great chaplain, his name's Kevin Tyson, he does a great job with the guys, and so we it's just being intentional about there's people here for you, and let's go connect over coffee, or there's people here for you if you if you need them. Then the other thing is you have your like face-to-face mentors that you know personally, but then who are the mentors who like what you listen to and what you read, those are mentors as well. So we talk about, you know, like I love reading old dead guy theology. So, you know, Charles Spurgeon, all those guys. I love, I love that stuff. They're mentors.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

I'm laughing right now because even from the pulpit, I tell people, I say, listen, go ahead and read something from some theologian. It's like having coffee with a dead guy.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

It really is. It's so good. And and mostly you have to do a lot of listening because he ain't he he ain't hearing you. Um, but I I love the example that you gave of even your own father participating in with it. And I just had this mental image on the table of working on someone and hitting a tough point and having a 10-minute conversation at on a pressure point, and uh the person having to give an honest answer because you know he'll push harder otherwise. Um, but just this great opportunity to serve

Mentor Dads And Faith Supports

SPEAKER_02 28:40

others facilitates a conversation, doesn't it? Um, people, I think, often when they think about mentoring, it's like, oh, I gotta like sit down with someone and tell my deepest, darkest secrets. Well, no, no, it's not. It's just it's having a relationship. And you'll be amazed. I think for someone who hears this, you'll be amazed some of the times that people come into mind and you're just like, why did I get to know this guy? And all of a sudden, something happens in life and you're like, whoa, that guy experienced this, but like 15 years ago, I should call him and get his perspective on this.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

And it's amazing how God's fingerprints are all over relationships. For someone who's looking to foster relationships and maybe don't have access to something like this camp or other things. Um, if you could uh talk a little bit about the resource that you're involved in, um, you just published a second book, um, which is a devotional. Um, talk a little bit about this, like not only this for this passion to mentor and to connect people, but what got you into providing a resource for someone to use even alone without someone in front of them?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Right. Well, you know, if you go back, my my freshman year in university was I became a book nerd. Like we're traveling the country in a bus, we didn't have phones, we had the crappy VHS videos in the bus. So I just remember my very first we're at a Walmart in Lake Charles, Louisiana, playing McNeese State, and went to and Billy Graham's autobiography came out, and I don't know why the heck I got it, but it was 10 bucks, you know, good old American dollar there. And uh pick up this 800-page mammoth.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

I was gonna say it's not a small book.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

No, and I was the only Christian on the team, which is kind of crazy, like 40 guys, and I'm just on the bus reading this thing, and guys are like, What are you doing? What are you doing? And but that was the the reading became uh a love of mine um there, right? And so, you know, fast forward 20-some years now, always wanted to write a book, um, create something that could help others. I've when whether I was a teacher or a vice principal or a coach, one of my greatest joys is resourcing others wherever they're at. Like, can I provide value that will help them grow in whatever they're going through? And so I got invited to be a co-host on the Grit and Growth podcast two years ago. And last year, about this, well, yeah, about a year and a half, year 14 months ago, uh, my co-host and I, Justin, just started talking. Like, hey, we are starting to talk, like, we always have had great guests, but the content we're talking about is just it, it's it's great. It doesn't even feel like work. Like we go on, we get to talk to world-class leaders, athletes, business people, and they're just sharing so much wisdom. How do we share this in a different format other than a podcast? And so we talked with a friend who had published

Writing Books And Daily Devotion

SPEAKER_01 32:04

a few books, and he helped us out with them. And so we just we we basically just wanted to take some of the main messaging from the the show and put it into book form. And we were interviewing a we we so we kind of had the idea of like what we want, what the the theme of the book. We had the content for the book, we had no title, and so we had just interviewed a high school basketball coach from from uh regiant, he's a good friend of mine's named Jeff Glasbell, and he's won, I think, 11 provincial championships in the last 25 years. He's I think he's set the record now and probably gonna win a few more before he retires. And we we asked him a question on the podcast like, what's your definition of excellence? He's like, Well, I don't really talk about excellence, I talk about more about significance. And so we whatever. And so a few weeks later, like it was really good, but a few weeks later, just said to Justin, why don't we call this significance over success? It just kind of came like not that success is bad, but what is truly significant in the day-to-day in the season of what are we trying to produce? And so you just talked about having mentors, um, like old old dead theologians. Well, I'm a big believer you gotta lead yourself first before it to before you lead others and be really intentional about that. And so for me, and not everybody's like this, but and I think sometimes we make excuses, but to find that thing that's gonna fill our cup daily, and usually first time in the morning. And as a as a busy coach who's a father of three, got a lot going on, I never regret cracking my Bible in the morning, and I never regret reading a few pages of a good book or a devotional. Just to get, and I can but I can tell the few times in the year that I don't read, like I it's probably like five times a year for whatever reason, I won't open my Bible in the morning, and I can tell later in the day, just there's something I haven't connected to Jesus through his written word, and for some reason that just it's a there's a void there. But when I when I couple that with you know reading a few chapters of my Bible, prayer, it could be journaling, whatever does it for you, but then a good solid devotional or book, a few pages, for some reason I'm just better that day. I'm in a better mood, I'm in a better headspace, I'm better focused, and I've taken some time. And quite honestly, 15 minutes. I like to do longer, but that's all it takes is 10 to 15 minutes, and it's such an important investment. And so for us, when we wrote the book uh last like two Christmases ago, um, you know, the book it it it conveyed, it was our first one. Um, but then we just kind of thought, well, it'd be really just simple to take a devotional content for 30 days from the book, and I like both of them, but the the the devotional convicts me, and I've and I and I I I created it. Like, and so I'm reading through like, oh my goodness, like I gotta listen to my own advice because this is this is hard, right? And so yeah, I we always want to create content that we would read, and we really think we've done done that with both books. And the devotional we just put out about six weeks ago, and whether you're an athlete or a coach or a leader or a parent, uh two pages every day, some great questions. And I had somebody come to me today, said, Hey, I got your book. I want to buy 50 copies so I can just I want to hand it out to everybody because more people need to read this. And I was like, that's probably one of the coolest endorsements. I said, Can you go put that on Amazon right now? Because we need we need we need that because it's uh so if it just helps somebody, but I just really think it's really important that you invest in yourself like from a spiritual standpoint, like what are you feeding your heart and your mind? Because we're in a battle, and you've we've got to get out there. And if you're not listening to good stuff, whether it's music or podcasts or sermons or Bible or good books, um you're you're you're not working with a full deck of cards, like it's you're you're you're falling short here, and you're not you're not equipped. And so we just wanted to help fill that space a little bit for people who are looking for something um to give them that that jolt uh on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

One of my mentors did that with a book um and gave me a copy of it. I'm like, what do you mean handing out a book? Like you're just randomly handing out a book and you're like, Yeah, I bought a case, enjoyed it so much, I bought a case. I had started doing that myself, and it's interesting how that even like you said, that's fuel. That is fuel. The other side of it is when you're the person actually handing it out, it's hit a nerve. I think it's got to hit a certain nerve. You know, you've actually like not just like you've like made your point, but you've actually struck a nerve with someone when they buy a case and they and they hand it out because now they're putting their money where their mouth is. Um, let's talk a little bit about that investment in time. It sounds like things are are going pretty solid in regards to uh not only coaching, uh now you've had some experience doing mentoring, being connected with other believers, helping out young people. Um, sounds like sunshine and roses. Life's not exactly like that, is it? I think sometimes someone tuning into our life and uh social media has kind of been guilty of doing this for everyone. We see the best side of everyone. Um tell me a little bit

Burnout, Foxhole Friends, Redemption

SPEAKER_02 37:34

about slugging through the mud when you're a dad, a husband, um involved with a big time commitment like coaching. Um, sometimes things are heavy. Let's talk about hauling the heavy baggage a little bit. Um what are some of the uh encouraging things that you can share to someone who maybe right now is waist deep in mud and uh they're just they're going through it.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Yeah. Again, my mentor JP Nurvin said to me years ago, before we started writing, before we started doing this stuff, he just said he was with me when you know before we were winning more than we were losing. Uh he got to see me low, low. Like, I don't know if I should do this, I'm a terrible coach, that sort of stuff. And he didn't believe it. And I needed somebody like that in my life just come alongside me and reminding me of who I am, whose I am, and why I'm doing this. And so I needed, you know, like I guess one of the first questions I would ask is who are your who are your 3 a.m. friends? Who are your who are your foxhole friends that when you when you feel like a loser, when you when things are just hard, you can just shoot a text like, hey, I need prayer. Or you send them a voice message and just you just explain and you know they're gonna support you, pray for you, but also if they see hear something in that, they're not gonna be afraid to to come alongside you and and like a gentle challenge. And sometimes, sometimes it's a a harsh challenge where it's like, okay, you're being an idiot, we love you, but okay, let's go, you know, that sort of thing. And like, yeah, I'm gonna pray for you, but I think you know the course of action. You just need to, you know, take action and go. So you need the you need so I would I would challenge every every person, like, who's that person that you can call at 3 a.m. or those friends that are gonna be with you in the foxhole when when when uh the arrows are flying. Um go back to my friend JP. He was he encouraged me early on. I was like, you need to share your story. I was like, why well? I'm not a winning coach yet. He's like, doesn't matter. He said, more people will resonate with your story and what you're going through as a coach than like Mike Sheshewski or the most popular coaches, like we're talking basketball there. He's like, because like people can't, they're not on, they don't understand where what he's going through. His level of stress is way different than yours, and you're more of the norm. More people are going through what you're going through. And so that so through that that time, another mentor mentioned he's like, Shane, your your your greatest struggle often is gonna become your greatest superpower. Like God is gonna use your greatest struggle to impact others once you come through it. Um, and that just hit me like a punch to the face. You're like, Lord, how long is this gonna go on? Like, how long are we gonna start struggling this way? And so I've just realized, you know, my my college career did not go the way I thought it was gonna go. There was injuries, there was lies, there's there's mistrust, there's all sorts of things. Some of that's on me, and some of it was different circumstances. And um, you know, my coaching career kind of went like this for a long time, and it's you kind of go through the fire and then realize every single struggle you're going through, okay. The Lord's gonna bring you through this, and you don't know what's gonna be on the other side. Um, but if your focus is not on yourself, and you know, for me, it's it's who my players are becoming. So after a tough loss, okay, what's what's really important here? Is it that we lost? Am I gonna go mope in the hotel? Or is this now to go meet with some guys one-on-one and see how they're doing? And let's talk, let's regroup. And how's this actually gonna make us stronger tomorrow, next week, next season? Maybe it's two years from now. Because I'll tell you, like when we won, when we won the championship two years ago, oh man, seven of those guys, eight of those guys went through some of the worst seasons ever. Like two and nineteen, uh, like two wins in a season. That's rough. We went through some some hard times, and then to go from that to a few years later going 19-1, like those hugs and those talks after winning, and even now, the guys will stop by, and it's just special because you went through it together, it just means more. Um, even when we won, there's a there's a photo of me just watching the celebration, and I just remember I'm like, I just watched take this in, and I think I was able to appreciate the the moment for what it was. This isn't gonna be fulfilling, this isn't gonna satisfy, but there was just this sense of gratitude of like, okay, Lord, I never really thought this was possible. And it's not about the win, but seeing all these guys, they learned resilience, they learned teamwork, they learned uh commitment to see that. So there's always something bigger at work, like, and you go through it enough, you go through that, that you go through the mud enough, you kind of start looking like, oh, okay, like okay, this is gonna turn out for good eventually, but when? Like my favorite, one of my favorite verses in the Bible, Genesis 50, 50 to 20. If you're gonna ask me who who would you like to hang out with, I'd like to hang out with Joseph. Like, that's just my guy. I don't know why, mostly because I feel like his whole story from Genesis 37 through 50 is he did some dumb things, but he was also really faithful. And so some of the stuff he has to own and repent of, but then other stuff, he just gets treated poorly by almost everybody in his life through different seasons, but through that he he he builds resilience and grows. And then, you know, chapter 50, verse 20 is like you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. Yeah, and that's a again, that's just that that reminder of that that verse. Like, okay, so when you're going through it, okay, this may feel like Satan or whoever's using this for for evil, but God's gonna redeem this somewhere. Uh, that's the beauty of the gospel. It's like like this, he's a redemptive God, and so um trusting in that, and that comes back to just I think it's so important to remind you yourself of those promises every morning. Like be in a right reading plan, be in a group of guys that can talk things out, have a good devotional. Uh, you just I just it's it's it's it's a non-negotiable for me. Like you just have to because it's so easy to get distracted by the wrong things.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah, I've been going through this year uh morning and evening with CH Spurgeon. Oh, Charles Haddon. Oh, and just unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Your beard's almost there if you get it a little more, but you know what? Need a pipe.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

I went through this and I had this flashback in my head. I had bought the book like 26 years ago, or 28 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And I barely touched it. And when I finally rediscovered it, I was like, why have I been waiting so long? What and you reminded me of that when you talked about Joseph. Um, the Bible, there's not a lot said about the gaps in time. It's not sequential, it doesn't just go back to back to back. There's gaps in time where he's forgotten about in prison when there's like just things happen, life is just there. And uh it was just it, it was so it's so raw that you're like, okay, Lord, this is the march of the unqualified, the old the the Bible is uh outside of Christ, and you're you're allowing these people to be pieces of this beautiful puzzle that I I I can't

Guardrails, Health, Switching Off

SPEAKER_02 45:35

wait to see how my little jagged piece of cardboard fits into the big picture. Um you made me think of well as sometimes the people that are on the side observing all of this. Um, in for many guys, I I probably relate with you on this, is my wife's a great support to allow me to do what we do. As a coach, you're busy always coaching your players. How do you, as a coach and as a man, um flick the switch and not coach your house?

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Oh boy. Um I I try really hard not to bring work home. Uh my you know, my wife's a public health nurse, when she leaves at five, it's it's gone until tomorrow. When I come home from practice, if practice didn't go well, or I have to have a meeting with a player, or we're not figuring something out on our system. Like I wake up at two in the morning and I'm I'm overthinking and you know, that like that sort of thing. And so um, I think that's it's again, that just is one of those things where you need those support systems. You need like what's your own system? And be like, what do you mean what's your what's your personal system? Yeah, okay. So where do you go? Um, what are the guardrails you have in place to feed yourself so that your cup because it's gonna happen as a coach, it's your brain doesn't turn off. So a big thing for me is how are you filling your cup physically, mentally, emotionally, um, spiritually, and then and then professionally. Like, how are you filling your cup? So, how are you taking care of yourself? And so I have found it doesn't need to be a big thing, but I think as far as coaches, I think it's really, really important. One, where you like, are you investing in yourself spiritually every day? Some somewhere where it's a devotional prayer, like set it, like that's a non-negotiable, you've got to set aside time, and that might be walking to work and you're praying, or driving the car and praying, or listen to the Bible on like there's just no excuse anymore. But there has to be that that daily deposit. Um how are you taking care of yourself physically? I've found in my in my journey when I am take when I'm taking care of myself, like what I'm putting into my mouth and how I'm moving my body, I'm just a better coach. I'm able to deal with stresses and anxiety. And that's something I don't think we talk about in the church a lot. I don't think we talk about that in a coaching profession a lot. There's a lot of self-medicating that goes on with not just we think of self-medication as as man, as something destructive as like um um alcohol or drugs or pornography or all that kind of stuff, and those are bad, but we don't really talk about um self-medicating with food or Netflix or whatever. Um, and those are ways of escape that those aren't bad things, we just kind of abuse them. And so I think it's it's it's really important to uh have those guardrails and again to have those fox rail foxhole friends just remind you like, well, why are you doing this? And I think it's really, really important. So, like today, this is funny you asked me this question because I uh it's it's my off season. We start, my guys get here in 12 days for training camp, everything's kind of ready to go. Um, had to have two real make two really difficult decisions on personnel and my roster for next year. Um, and it came down to I had to stick to what's what's my what are my values? And I had to make two really difficult calls on our upcoming season, which I know deep down it was the right call, but they were extremely difficult to do. And it just wore me out mentally because they were big decisions that had been weighing for a while, and they finally made them. And so in that moment, it's like, okay, what am I gonna stick to? Okay, go for a walk, surrender to the Lord, just be honest so my wife knows, right? Because how many times when frustration at work, and then we get frustrated or our tones off with our spouse or our kids, and it has nothing to do with them, right? And so for me to say, hey, this is what happened, and just so they're just so they know. So it's just it's I think it's being really important of making sure your cup is filled in certain areas so that when the adversity hits, you're you're in the best possible position to deal with it well. I think too many times we try and be deal with that adversity when our cups are low because we just neglected ourselves. I think it's just really important to take care of ourselves so that we're ready to do that. Um, and that's something that I've failed at numerous times.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Oh man, I I hear yeah. You uh you and I talked before this recording uh about our episode with Brad Cooper. And Brad Cooper he you know what he brought that up though so well with Dave in that conversation and this thought process about like we don't talk about it at church, we don't talk about it uh with men about like health, like not just mental health has become more and more a thing. Uh you want, hey, that's fine, that's great, that's good, but physical health too. And hey, I feel at it all the time too. At the same time, it's like, man, like sometimes you just got to grab onto the reality of like I remembered 20 years ago my like my grandfather having a bad back and saying to myself, you know what, I'm not gonna have that. I I need to make my back as strong as possible. Um, because uh if this is genetics by any means, how could I be ahead of the game? We don't think

Identity, Counselling, Honest Vulnerability

SPEAKER_02 51:09

of that ahead of the game mentality anymore. And as a coach, and as a coach here, I think we get it maybe a little bit more. It's like, hey man, everything that you've invested in June, July, August is gonna come out, not in September only, but like March, February, when everyone else is burning out, you still got legs, you're just putting it into fifth gear. Yeah, and I think we don't handle that in that same way, physical health and even just spiritual health, where we just so so many people are running on fumes. Yeah, what is a good word of encouragement that you would give to someone? Maybe someone's heard this and listened to this, and they're like, Boy, you just read my mind, running on fumes. Um how do I park and fill up your well?

SPEAKER_01 52:02

One, you know, feel free to share my cell number and email in your show notes because this is just this is you know, this is something that's really important to me because I've I've been in that burnout stage. Um, you know, when I resigned from coaching the girls back in 2011, I didn't know if I was gonna head coach again. Uh, you know, I went back and coached in the high school. I went and coached volleyball for three years, which I had no clue what I was doing. Um, but it was a lot of fun to teach something that I just I don't know, if we won a lot, like I was really competitive, but it was it, it was just different. It was a different space. And I got to be an assistant coach for a year at the high school level on a really good team. And it was uh one of my old former coaches from elementary school, and he asked me to be the assistant coach. And he didn't he didn't know it at the time, but he was he was saving my coaching career in some ways. And I told them at the year and banquet that year, I was like, I was burnt out on coaching and didn't know if I was gonna do this again. You kind of save that, you know, and and uh just because of he poured into me and just gave me space to kind of heal from a difficult, a difficult, a difficult season. And so there's a light at the end of the tunnel, um, but knowing my wife says all the time, and this was my mother-in-law said this all the time to my to us and my grandkids, every time we'd leave somewhere, they both say, remember who you are and whose you are. And knowing who you are, not just in Christ, like that's the most important. Like, who does Jesus say you are? Right? Like, I'm a son of God, you know, and what does that mean? And you can go through all the different statements through scripture of who Jesus says we are when we are in Christ, and then that's your identity. That's and if you you you go from that posture, um, it it helps. And then you start realizing, well, am I is my identity come from my coaching, or has it come from who I am as a coach? So I'm a coach who's engaged with my players, who cares for my players, who shows up every day, who models the way. Like you start, well, who am I? And then realizing the valley is like one of the greatest places to be in. It just really sucks when you're in it. But like, you know, I come back, I think it was at 2 Corinthians chapter 12, where it's like, my power is made perfect in weakness. Like, I've got tattoos on my arms of verses remind because I need reminders, and so that's one that I'm tempted to put on there. Is it like, okay, God sometimes does his greatest work when we feel our weakest, and just like surrender, surrender, surrender. You know, um, Isaiah 26, 3, 4 always gets to me. It's like you keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee. How many times do I go to, like, we walk again? We're in Carnport, it's flat, there's fields, I'll go walk the grid roads and just pray. It's like, hey, Lord, just and just those verses just back to him. Like, hey, um, I'm struggling with anxiety or stress over this player or this situation. You keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is saying, Go help me to be focused on you, make straight my paths, just reciting scripture back and back. So I don't think any of this is any that that your listeners have never heard. I just think we give up on it too soon. It's those, it's those small, it's like showing up to practice every day. Well, um, showing up and reading your Bible every day for 10 minutes, that's flexing that muscle, you know, getting scripture in your head, learning one big thing I've tried is like when I'm facing adversity is do I go to Jesus first or my friends? My friends are awesome, but they're not God. And so sometimes before I'm about to send a text, it's like, okay, put the phone down, Lord, I'm gonna give this to you first, and then I text my friends. Hey, what do you guys think? Can you pray for me? What's your feedback? That sort of thing. So um, yeah, it's it's a sweet, it's a changing of the like do doing hard things, like showing up when it's really difficult. I think God is ready to do something really sweet. Um, but sometimes that takes a little while.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Yeah, even for guys like Job, all of a sudden it's like, wow, we went through a lot of this book before all of a sudden you had the conversation with God that you really needed to have.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

I mad, Job. I I I when I was young, when I was transitioning from this again, this is I shared some articles years ago where I struggled with like but with mental health. So when I was when I finished my baseball career, um I didn't have a support system. So I was this athlete for 15, 20 years, and um, I'm just done. And I was student teaching down in Kansas City, Missouri, and I was lost. And I came home and my dad just my dad knew something was off. I moved home, and he said, You need to go see somebody. I was like, No, I'll figure it out. I'm tough. Only weak people see counselors, all this kind of stuff. I was had a lot of pride. Um, but I was broken. Like I was, and I went through about another month where I was just I I don't there's something going on in my brain that something's broke, not broken, but something needs some care. And I finally said, I'm tired of feeling this way. And so I went and started seeing a counselor for about six months. It was the probably one of the best decisions I ever I ever made. And I started sharing about that because people in my sphere saw me as, oh, this successful person who doesn't have problems. And then when I started sharing that I went through a period where I needed help, I needed professional help to help me navigate a life transition from being part of a team every day for 20 years or 15 years, whatever it was, and now that's gone. Well, who am I now? Right. And the amount of men that read that article, I threw it on medium.com and Facebook, and I got personal messages from guys like, I never thought you would have gone through that. Thank you for sharing. Can we get together for coffee? I was like blown away with the response because so many men were going through the same thing, and it might not have been depression, but just like the who am I? What's my purpose? What's my worth? Right? Like, what am I supposed to do with my life? I've had kids, I'm married, I should be happy, but I just there's nothing, all right. And so just to talk, like just to get it out there. And again, this was my friend JP, just like share your story, share your stuff, because more people are going to resonate. And the response, I never thought I'd get the response we got. And that's you know, that's why again, why we wrote the books. Like the books aren't perfect, but it's just basically saying, hey, here, here we are, we're exposing ourselves, come girl with us.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

You know what? That's so that's so good because I think as men, uh, we think um putting ourselves in a place where we're vulnerable uh is weakness. And I was watching this this talk, and the guys were talking about how when uh men decide to posture, and talking about posture, they actually expose their arteries and they show different examples about when they posture and they sort of throw their arms up or stretch their neck back and or do just physical posture. And I think sometimes you're right, we we do that where we we posture

Competing Hard With Christlike Consistency

SPEAKER_02 59:24

even mentally, where we say, like, no, no, real men don't talk about things or real men don't go things. Every every year I share with players, uh, there's an article in the players' tribune um by a guy who played overseas and it says, I'm not Conor McDavid. That's the title of the article. And one of the things that he talks about is like this perpetual being chased in a position in sport, but he's always trying to chase someone to gain that spot. And he talks about his struggle with depression and attempting suicide and just this reality that it's like, no, like I need to think about who that person is. And and it I echo the saying that I always use uh you're a person before you ever were a player. And one day when the whole sport is done, you're gonna be uh you're still a person, and the the play is gone, the play is ended. As Christians, it's a little bit different reality, though.

unknown 1:00:20

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Where I think God's put us in the position that we're in in life, um, where we get to be spokespeople. We are what Christ would look like if he was a car salesman, what Christ would look like if he's a teacher, what Christ would look like if he's a basketball coach. Um how do you display that Christ-likeness as a coach to maybe someone who doesn't have a relationship with Christ?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

I think it speaks for so people get our our book titles misconstrued because they said, Oh, you guys don't care about winning. It's like, no, I lose sleep when we lose. Like, I care deeply about the scoreboard. But it's funny because even when you win the championship, you got the ring, you got the medal, you're st you still got you still gotta wake up the next morning, you still have all your same responsibilities. You gotta make your kids breakfast, you gotta get them off the school, you gotta recruit for like okay, you just you just get on the hamster wheel, you do it again. So there's always this this this chasing where you've gotta be something something more than that. Um so for me, say the quite say the question again. I started going in a different direction.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

No, no, no, you you did fine, you're right along with it. Um, what how do you show Christ-likeness to someone who's playing for you who who doesn't have faith, doesn't uh know who Christ is. Right. How do you do that? But you're still you're still competitive, you're still in the game, you still want you're still a person. How do you do it as a coach?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Right. This was this is where I was going. So our athletic director's name is Nigel Mull, and he's our our men's volleyball coach as well. And he's I think he's one of the best coaches in the country. Like he's you know, two conference championships, been national coach of the year. Like he's I've learned so much from him. And it always bugs him when people talk about mention, well, winning's not that he's like, no, winning's like because he's very driven to win. And he said, Shane, as Christians, winning gives us a different platform. And so, you know, him and I, him and I agree on that. You know, we've gone back and forth and just sharpening each other on on that whole theological perspective of winning. But it's whether you're winning or you're losing when things are going good, when things are going bad, people are watching how you respond and being consistent in that. So when you're winning, who gets the credit? Jesus. When you're losing, who's bringing you through that? Jesus. Like your posture is always the same. What's your purpose? Where's your hope found? What's your foundation? Well, my foundation is in the cross of Christ. And so when it talks about boasting nothing but the cross, like numerous times throughout the New Testament, it talks about that. Like the only thing we should boast in is Jesus finished work on the cross. Yeah. Well, that counted for me. I believe in that. I'm going to surrender, I'm going to bend the knee to that. So you win. Who cares that we were better at putting a ball through a circle? It's like, let's think of the bigger picture. Well, all praise to him for allowing us to do that, give us the ability to do that, to be able to compete. Thank you for the other team. They help make us better. Like, we're all sharpening each other. Um, and thank you for that opportunity to stay consistent with that. And you're not pointing inward. Oh, look at us. We did all this, whatever. And then when it's bad, same thing. Are they seeing you show up? Are they seeing you still study film? Are they seeing you still treat your players the same? Or are you now compromising your values? Are you willing to cheat? Are you willing to do things that are unethical in order to get the results that you want? Or are you just showing up and putting in the work every single day and being consistent and seeing that that commitment to your faith and what you believe when things are hard? I think that's the the greatest. Because like, well, how do you do this? Like, well, my hope is in Jesus, and this really sucks right now, but I know there's something greater at work, and just be consistent in that. You don't have to get all theological about it. I think that's one of the greatest examples moving forward, and then people see that and they're like, 'There's something different, there's a joy there.' You know, I'm I'm big into listening to uh um oh, what's his name? Uh Wes Wes Huff is on all the big podcasts right now over the world. And he was on Diary of his CEO, and one of the biggest, again, I think it's like the sixth big biggest podcast in the world, out of the UK. And this podcast host said to Wes about Christianity, because this guy's really searching. That every Christian I come in contact with, there just seems to be a different, they're just different. There's more hope around them. They're

Coach Of The Year With Gratitude

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

just more joyful. They're not so caught up in just the challenges of like the difficulties of the world. They just they're just more pleasant to be around. And it's like, yeah, we're supposed to be a pleasing aroma, you know, salt and light, um, to others. And so that's not you being on the street corner or whatever. It's just like just that we you when you're when you're being real in your faith and you're walking closer with Jesus, it just radiates. And so I think as a coach, as a parent, like all these different things you talked about, do it's not so much do you know Jesus, does he know you? And how are you gonna how are you gonna know him if you're not he gave us a book for whatever reason? He decided to give us a book. Well, get into that book, listen to it, read it, put it in podcast, like whatever it is, there's no excuse. And so that's how he's that's the number one way he's chosen to communicate with us, and then he wants us to talk to him.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Yeah, we hand out Bibles to hockeyers and or to anyone that wants one, but at the same time, it's I always explain it like this is an instruction manual for life, and there's a thrive and and yeah, and there's examples in it, it's not just do this, do that, do this, do that. No, no, no. There is personal examples and eyewitness accounts of things that work and a lot of things that don't. Yeah, and I think that's part of it is learning from our own mistakes, but learning from others, and I think that's why conversations like this are important because people can listen and say, hey, listen, we we understand what has worked because I'm living walking proof of it. At the same time, it doesn't mean that we're superhumans, we've had failures too. Um, we've talked a little bit about the downs, talk a little bit about the ups. Coach of the year. Um, when when you get to be coach of the year, um it's sometimes I have the running joke, I've used it already one time this season in the spot. Podcast one episode. Uh, I got a badge for being humble, but I wore too much, so they took it away. Um, how do you how do you take that experience and show gratitude with humility?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

You know, I think that's one of the gifts of the struggle to get there. Uh I you know, how many I I the story of Matt Damon winning his first Oscar at 27, and he went home and it was and he went to this hotel room that night, and he's like, Well, this is it. Like, I I've I got this. You know, like it's a fascinating story to look it up online of just how he's like, Okay, this there has to be something more than just because I got this at 27 and now what? Right? You know, Tom Brady, three Super Bowls by the time he's 27, and he's on 60 minutes talking about okay, is this it? I've got the supermodel wife, million-dollar contract, three Super Bowl wins, MVP. Now what? There has to be more to this. I'm like, yes, there's way more than this, right? That sort of thing, and all those things are good. Um for me, I remember like the night of the like the night of this championship, and we were we got the host, which was great. So we were playing at home, which was a huge advantage, and it was unbelievable. I think we broke the fire code in our gym because there were so many people in there. I don't think it'd ever been that many people. And the night, so on the Saturday night before the game, game was at 6 p.m. I'm in my office about four. They just had the bronze medal game, and you know, emotions are high, but I just had my Bible open to Philippians three and four, right? And just reading about contentment and casting all your cares on Christ because he cares for you. And I was just like, I just kept reading through and like just okay, Lord, just take it. Like, whether win or lose, I said just help us to represent you well tonight, um, to play together, to just do what we've been doing. And whether again, this can go either way, it's a championship game, both teams are really good. And it was probably the most, the least dramatic game of the tournament. We were just leading the entire game and we won. And then afterwards, you know, it was just satisfying to look at my players, look at my family members, look at our community members, and just reflect. And I just remember standing there just saying, Thank you. I never envisioned this. Um, especially three years ago when I was questioning, should I keep coaching this team? Do they need another direction? And said pivoted and just changed the whole direction of our program. And then um things started going the other way. So I think I'd gone through enough rough seasons just to be like, okay, this can be all taken away in a minute. And you know, like we're in a bit of a reset this year. We're the youngest, we have the youngest roster that we've had in probably five years. So we'll see how we do. Um, but the bigger picture is the excitement of, well, now we get to reset the foundation, the culture, grow with this group of guys. You know, before I won Coach of the Year two years ago, and before he won that championship, um I started talking to coaches that had won it all. Um, national championships, undefeated seasons, conference championships, like all over the place, in the states, in Canada here, people on our podcast, whatever. And I would ask them, I said, so what changed? And their answer was really nothing. You know, like they said, we we kind of got up the next day and and just same. It's so did you get paid more? No. Did you change jobs? No. Did your kids magically not cry in the morning and have to change diapers and all that kind of stuff because you're you know the champion now? No. They said you still had all the same problems. I said, Well, it might have been a little easier to recruit. I said, okay, yeah, that make you know that makes sense. But you know, there's a watching the there's a documentary on Netflix on the Florida Gators when Urban Meyer coached them. And I watched that on the bus that championship year, and it gave me some perspective because even when they won, he was so consumed with the he couldn't enjoy it because he was so consumed with the win. They won the national championship, and before he celebrated with his players, he ran into his office and was texting recruits for the next season, right? Funny thing is, we won, we celebrate. I ran up to my office and I actually texted three recruits for next year. I was like, what are you doing? Put your phone down and go enjoy the moment the mo the moment, right? I think I sent you a picture of that me just sitting there in the gym of just taking it in and just watching. And so I just it's it can all be taken away. The championships are awesome, they give you a different platform. They're they're not gonna fulfill you, they're nice, they're actually more fulfilling if they're not the main thing. That's what I found. The championship became secondary to me, and then I think I was able to enjoy it more than some people who have been in the same position, and I'm very thankful for that. Uh, because yeah, I still look at the pictures, you know, you look at the medal, you're like, that was it just reminds me of people. Yeah, every time I see pictures of that championship year, it just reminds me of the sacrifice that my players made in order to be a team. And some guys stepped into roles that they didn't want, but they embraced it. And be because of we were so self-sacrificing, I think we just created a team that was at least in our conference, unbeatable because teams are just we just out teamed people because we had more buy-in, and it was just such a special year for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

Well, this takes us to our portion of our show where we have five fast, quick questions that we're gonna toss at you. We're gonna launch them one by one. Quick questions means quick answers. No, it doesn't always mean quick answers, but give us a good answer for it. Are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:11

I do this to our guests, so it's my turn to get uh that's that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

Here we go, right back at you. Okay, um, athletes have routines, some people call them superstitions, some people call them pregame rituals.

Quick Questions And Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

As a coach, what's your pre-game ritual?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Um, have supper with my at home, I have supper with my family. Um, get to the gym early, have my Bible open during the girls' game. Uh, my my fridge is stocked of bubbles and Coke Zero, or you know, basically, and I'll just sit there with my Bible open and just pray a little bit, read a few passages, finish watching the girls' game, and then uh and then we get going. So, yeah, and on the road, just make sure I have my morning devotional. Um, like to go for a walk and get an exercise in. So that's the biggest thing. Uh, get a quick lift in, move the body, and uh have a good meal and devotions. That's kind of the goal.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:10

Okay, next year you get one recruit from basketball history. You can have this person at their prime, and he will play one year for your team. What player are you taking from all time in basketball and putting them on your team?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:26

Uh, say Larry Bird.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

Okay. I like Larry. I like Larry. I don't know. He the older I get, the more I just appreciate him.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

Yeah, yeah. I, you know what? I'm I'm right with you. I was I was uh when everyone was a Chicago Bulls fan, I was a fan of individual players. Isaiah Thomas, Larry Bird.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

Larry's good. There's so many other guys. Like I was a big Charlotte Hornet fan. I love Larry Johnson. Yeah, you know, Mike Michael was great. Just something. I think Larry would have been top three all time if he if his back didn't give out on him.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Yeah, or the admiral.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

David Robinson was something.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:07

He was, he was something, and he was flying under the radar the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

A funny thing, I think I might pick second, possibly Tim Duncan, because I think he was the ultimate team captain. Where he just he was just the consummate leader, not about him, but he was so good. And I think San Antonio was so good for so many years because he bought into being coached.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:31

Interesting. Here I thought you were going to go with Spud Webb, but you know, he could dunk, but that's about it. That's about he drew the attention. He drew the attention. Um favorite Bible verse.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

Oh man. Um like I shared the one from Genesis 50 to 20. You know, there's Carl Hindrager, who is our he's a prof here at school, who is um, this is gonna be not super quick. He was our he was the head coach when we won the national championship in 1977. I brought him to do a Divo with my team four years ago when we weren't very good. And one of my players asked, What was the secret to your success? And he paused and he quoted Psalm 37.4, belight in the Lord your God, and he'll give you the desires of your heart. And then he quoted Matthew 6.33, saying, Seek first the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you. And he just that's all he said. And my players just stared at him. I'm setting off to the side. This is the year before everything kind of changed, like, oh, okay, Lord, you brought him here to talk to me. Because my I have not been delighting in you, and I have not been seeking your kingdom first. And until I start modeling that for my players, um, we it's not gonna be there. And so I had made a promise to my team back in 2019. We just got swept by Sate, and Sate out of Calgary had just won, they were in the midst of winning six conference championships in a row. And my players asked me, like, So what do you what coach, what would you do if we ever beat them? I said, I'll get a tattoo if you ever beat them. I said, But you gotta sweep them, and they said, Promise? Like this year? I said, Well, we're not gonna do it this year, we're no good, but we're gonna be in the future. So, again, two years ago, they're ranked number one in the country. We go into their barn, we beat them, and we lost the next day. My phone blows up, guys. Thought I was like, No, it has to be a sweep. Well, the next year, when we won it all, we swept them, and so I had to get a tattoo. And so I put those are the two verses we put those references on my as a reminder because it was like, Okay, Lord, like this is true, you know. But he he gave us something deeper than just those winds. It was like, what was my true desire? So, anyways, those those two verses are pretty close to my heart. There's a bunch of others, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:53

Oh, I love that answer. As a kid, I memorized Psalm 37, and man, such a good psalm. Oh my goodness. I one of the verses that stood out for me was the wicked draw the sword and bend the bow to bring down the poor in spirit. But the Lord laughs at them because he knows their day is coming. And you're like, hmm, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

That's our God, that's our God. And we forget that so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:19

Oh, so good. So good. Okay, question number four. If you we had we had the portion of this question was in our first season. If you could go back in time and talk to the 10-year-old self, but we reversed it this year. If you could write something for yourself to drop yourself a note 20 years from now, what are you writing down? Something that you'll never forget.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:49

Oh man. If I could talk to myself in 20 years, it'd be just to remind myself that you know, people overprofit. Like people matter more than you know, the winds and all that kind of stuff. And never stop surrendering to the Lord every single day. Um, never stop talking to him, no matter how bad or good life is. Just that's why I tell people like if you don't believe, just never stop talking to Jesus. There's a great song by uh Brandon Lake called Talking to Jesus. Makes me teary-eyed every single time listening to it. I think it's the best song. But, anyways, um it's uh never stop talking to him.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:35

Wow, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna write that down.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:38

I'm gonna Oh, it's a good it's a good song, anyways. I'll let you listen to it and then listen to the version he does a duet with uh um a country guy, Rhett, something rhett. Anyways, it's gold. They sing it at the at the Grand Old Opera or something like that. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:54

Okay, fantastic. And jump right in on that one. Um, lastly, to close our time together. Um to the coach that's doubting himself. Talk to yourself in your weakest moment. Give us a word of encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:14

Your worth is not in your record. Um, and those hard seasons are probably laying the foundation, or you'll be able to plant the seeds for a fruitful future. Um looking back, I just there's so many times where Lord when, Lord when, Lord when, and he's just like, Do you trust me? Do you trust me? Like, are you only gonna trust me when it's good? Um, and then for is it when you come out of it, it just makes it so much sweeter. Um the winds aren't if you've always won, the winds just kind of get boring. You know, if you're in that season, whether it's like your marriage is struggling or you have a wayward child or work is like keep talking to them, keep surrendering every day, um, keep hoping and trusting, and then keep planting those seeds, and one day you're gonna have a pretty cool story to experience and tell. So cool. So cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:15

Well, we appreciate the time you've given to us as always. We know that we're gonna talk to you down the road. Uh, let's close in a word of prayer together. Awesome. Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for this time that you've given to us to have with uh Shane and Lord, we just um know that it's a privilege to be able to talk about you. And Lord, often we don't give you enough credit for all the many things that you've done. And Lord, we've done that today, though, and we've talked about the amazing things in your fingerprints all over Shane's life. And we look forward to hearing what you have in store for the future. And Lord, we pray that as great things happen that He would continue to give you all the glory, honor, and praise. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

Amen.